Engagement in notgames

[Dagda]

Just seemed like it might be a good way to identify some alternative priorities other than engagement, which'd be useful for the discussion.

[God at play]

Here's an example:

In a film like Solaris, characters will have a brief conversation, followed by slow panning or a moment of contemplation.  This encourages contemplation from the viewer, who uses a moment of visual and/or narrative rest to engage intellectually in the meaning of the previous moment.

In game terms, you could slow down the pace of the interaction in order to encourage these moments.  But this assumes that a moment of rest triggers intellectual engagement.  I would guess that people who find Solaris boring don't easily engage in this way?  Likewise, people would think slowing down the pace of interaction would make the game boring, instead of encouraging contemplation.

[Dagda]

Ah, but games have an edge- the players can self-pace. Perhaps offering a cue that they are presently safe, and can relax to soak in the world around them- with impatient types who don't feel particularly stirred by your commentary still having the option to just press on ahead.

[God at play]

That could work, unless the very experience you're trying to create is that of contemplation.  Then those who want to "press on ahead" would find themselves missing the essence of the experience.  Kind of like fast-forwarding through a contemplative film.

Maybe it's just a matter of education? That those people need to be taught how to engage in a different way? Maybe they don't know how to "soak in the world"?

[Dagda]

That could work, unless the very experience you're trying to create is that of contemplation.  Then those who want to "press on ahead" would find themselves missing the essence of the experience.  Kind of like fast-forwarding through a contemplative film.

Maybe it's just a matter of education? That those people need to be taught how to engage in a different way? Maybe they don't know how to "soak in the world"?

Frankly, that attitude strikes me as the easy way out. I'm the designer and creator; my job is to have something worth paying attention to, and then figure out how to communicate that to my audience. If I can't inspire someone to "soak in the world", then that's on my head and not theirs.

That's more my knee-jerk reaction to your perceived tone than to actual content of what you're saying, though. After all, it's certainly vital to be capable of alternate approaches to reaching someone.

[God at play]

Yeah, that's actually what I was getting at with my questions.  Maybe it's up to us to educate the player to learn how to soak in the world, through the work itself.  The work becomes part education, part communication.

We need a way to teach players that the experience involves them stopping and soaking, to show them more explicitly a time for contemplation.

I think one way to do that would be to intensify the world when the player pauses.  I had this idea for a meditation game where the ambience became more alive when you paused.

And then I found out Jereon had a similar idea, too!  Someone needs to explore that idea I think...

[Michaël Samyn]

I think rewards don't necessarily need to come from the game all the time. Once in a while, the player should find a reward within himself. The reward of a feeling of peacefulness e.g. will be much stronger when the player chooses to be still and contemplate instead of being forced to do so by the game. I admit that this is risky design and that many players will need some education to get there. But just giving everything to them is not the solution. They have to do something, choose to do something. And sometimes that something is nothing. But it's important that it remains a choice, to maximize the effect.

(unless, of course, we compromise and we don't go for maximum effect but just something "nice" that a larger group of people can enjoy; that's ok too)