Notgames Forum

'If we are to think of negative ludology as that force which touches things that are not games, that are not ludic in nature, and marks them out as such, then I am tempted to, by analogy with the above ["negative atheology"], to coin the term "negative aludology", a force which actively denies, deconstructs, deposes, anything that people might assign ludic status to - it aggressively disavows the notion of "game".'

I'd like to know where the hell you got that from.

West syde negative aludology represent.

edit: To make myself clear: I think that it's a pretty crazy concept, and I'd like to understand the context.

edit2: Not that the concept itself is not in practice right now.

coin me a term and I'll tell you.

Funtertaingames. A neologistic portmanteau of fun, entertainment, and games: the trifecta of evil.

Sorry that this one ain't new for you.

Is the terms "ludic" restricted to the rigid requirements that most game designers have for games? The dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ludic) says "playful in an aimless way" and give "the ludic behavior of kittens" as an example. In that sense I'm totally not opposed to ludus myself. For me playfulness is a very important part of the appreciation of art. Kittens may be the ultimate art audience!  :)

What are we coining terms for?

Can I get it in English, please? :)

"Good" old times when I had to spend 15 minutes on understanding two sentences written in my mother tongue by some "enlightened" mind of postmodernism are thankfully GONE.

I always am a great fan of Roger Callois, from Man, Play and Games (Les jeux et les hommes).

He had four categories of games:
Agôn: Skill & Competition
Alea: Chance
Ilinx: Thrills
Mimicry: Pretence

And two extremes to define them:
Ludus: Strict play by rules
Paidia: Free play; unstructured and spontanious

Many games have elements from all. In his book he also describes the 'perversion' of categories such as alea with horoscopes (which are taken serious but are just a game of chance). I always think his book is brilliant because it derives sociology from play rather than play as as subset in sociology.

Most shooting games are agôn and ilinx with their competitive shooting and mindless explosions, many 'bored housewife' games such as peggle have large influences of alea.
Notgames would be low on agôn and high on mimicry, not being about skills and rather about pretence (seeing the situation as 'real').

These categories were a comfort when I found them studying gamedesign and being confronted with the singleton (somewhat childish) attitudes of most developers and their lack of language on this subject.

Learning some vocabulary won't kill you. It enables you, actually. The dictionary is a great companion.

I don't think that you really understood what I mean :)
"Overintellectual" talking doesn't really add quality to the content. If you can't say something using simple words you most likely have no skills to discuss and definitely not to create definitions.

"Brilliant" 'The Precession of Simulacra' is a great example. How much do you understand from these 4 words? Or do you fancy spending time reading dictionary realizing that author was too lazy to write things clear so the pleasure of being not lazy (double time!) is all yours.

True, I wouldn't consider it a virtue to hide the message under layers of confusing words unless we're talking poetry.

In what interesting ways might these categories differ from the more traditional Apollonian/Dionysian due?

(and, there was no context for that, I just liked the idea wrote it out after encountering the term 'negative atheology')

Could you have meant 'positive aludology', by the way?

I like difficult beautiful rare words, they make conversations like walking through a field of pretty flowers (;))


Paidia would not be necessarily letting go of your senses and giving in to inner desire, if I understand this Dionysian reference well. Perhaps it is culture but the juxtaposition of serious strokey-beard Apollo and the drunken loose Dionysus always jars me. If I hit my glass with my spoon accidentally and following all the guests at a dinner party tune in for a random symphony - that is paidia. If we all agree upfront that the last person to hit his glass must down it (pub games :() then that is ludus.
If we all throw our glasses on the floor, jump on the table, dance in a wild fashion... the structure of it would be a game with paidia. Mimicry; probably; we have our 'we are drunk' masks on and make fools of ourselves. But that is not a necessary element of paidia itself.

But I am sort of whilst not against fun; against Dionyusian fun; I think the whole point of being human is to find intellectual ways to fulfil our desires.