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Author Topic: Confusing preview of Bientôt l'été  (Read 14823 times)
Michaël Samyn

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« on: November 27, 2012, 06:30:47 PM »

Not sure what to think of this. I'm happy Mr Bernstein found something to like in our game, despite first impressions in less than ideal circumstances. And I don't mind being called pretensious. Though I do agree with Nicolas Dayton's comment that that is entirely besides the point when discussing the evolution of the medium. But is that all we can discuss? Pretension and sincerity are not simply traits to dismiss. They form part of the subject matter of this piece. When will we be able to actually talk about what this work is about? I guess when we have journalists with sufficient sensitivity and finesse.
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ghostwheel

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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 07:19:10 PM »

I liked this quote from the comments: "I'd rather have sincere folk trying to do something different than cynical opportunists doing the same old thing but "better."
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György Dudas

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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 08:23:39 PM »

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the clumsy but useful tag "experiential"

what's clumsy about the experiential tag? O would call it a precise tag...

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in a medium that has never even attempted to tickle the intellect

This is plain ignorant. There are many attempts that did speak to the intellect...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 08:28:36 PM by György Dudas » Logged
God at play

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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 08:27:57 PM »

I'm a bit let down because he didn't address what this is based on. Maybe he just doesn't like that kind of fiction? As it stands, he's not clear about it.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 08:04:22 AM »

I just realised that for me the whole café situation with wine, cigarettes and chess was meant to show a mundane and ordinary context, inspired by the workmen's café in Moderato Cantabile. Ironic that the author sees it as the opposite. Even Chauvin wouldn't have.
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Tyler Snell

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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 08:17:44 AM »

Confusing indeed!
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I'm not sure if this is fair, but I do look forward to a time when games are in a real conversation with the older forms and do not need to use red wine and chess as a shorthand for sophistication.
...what?

I finally played Bientôt l'été yesterday, and it struck me how beautifully simple and unassuming it is. I don't know what this "aggresive symbology" he speaks of is.

"What is the meaning of this Gauloises-smoking, red-wine drinking Belgian art game?"
It's funny how people instantly assume that anything "artsy" has to have a specific hidden meaning.

Even though he doesn't talk about it, it's great that he apparently got something out of the game though.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 08:49:42 AM »

I don't know what this "aggresive symbology" he speaks of is.

I wish he explained what is so incredibly obvious for him. Because I don't understand what it al means myself. And I put it there.

It's funny how people instantly assume that anything "artsy" has to have a specific hidden meaning.

I have noticed this before. There is a school of thought that equates art with some sort of puzzle design. Basically they see art as a complicated way to say something simple. And art appreciation is then solving the puzzle, ie finding that simple message that the author for some reason didn't want to just share up front.

Even though he doesn't talk about it, it's great that he apparently got something out of the game though.

I am pleased with this as well. But I expect more from a journalist/critic. Maybe this will happen when the game actually is released.
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ghostwheel

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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 11:51:59 AM »

Quote
I just realised that for me the whole café situation with wine, cigarettes and chess was meant to show a mundane and ordinary context, inspired by the workmen's café in Moderato Cantabile. Ironic that the author sees it as the opposite. Even Chauvin wouldn't have.

I don't think it's too difficult to comprehend how he approached this but then, I am American. I think it's a cultural thing. There is a strong streak of anti-intellectualism in the US. That and an association with Europe and sophistication.

Quote
I have noticed this before. There is a school of thought that equates art with some sort of puzzle design. Basically they see art as a complicated way to say something simple. And art appreciation is then solving the puzzle, ie finding that simple message that the author for some reason didn't want to just share up front.

This is the fault of modernist and post-modernist art. 20th century art has fucked us all.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 01:36:43 PM »

20th century art has fucked us all.

In general I agree with that sentiment. Modernism has wreaked havoc in art, and quite on purpose.

But there are exceptions. For all intents and purposes, Marguerite Duras, the author and film maker who most inspired me while making Bientôt l'été, is a modernist pur sang. But still her work is sincere, and deeply felt. She is really on a quest for truth, for finding the correct word, the right tone. What makes her work modern, apart from the form, is that she doesn't except simple, conventional truths. She digs deeper and what she finds is often confusing and ambiguous.

It's probably in part because modernist artists investigated the complexity of existence that it became difficult for the public to appreciate their work. And of course this opened the door for charlatans, who in turn have ruined whatever interest in art remained.

But! That doesn't mean humans have become incapable of appreciating art. Perhaps what is missing here is a sense of trust. Gamers, and game journalists, probably do not trust us as artists. They may think we're pulling their leg, making fun of their lack of experience by presenting incomprehensible randomness. They're also not used to dealing with videogames as aesthetic objects, given that the gameplay has always offered them a way out of that confrontation. I don't know how we can re-establish that trust. How we can tell them that it's ok, that they can relax, let go, simply enjoy, that they don't need to understand everything.
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God at play

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« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 07:07:52 PM »

They may think we're pulling their leg, making fun of their lack of experience by presenting incomprehensible randomness.

I think this is a key element, including with this videogame so far, which I just started playing last night in preparation for the stress test in a couple hours. To me, the experience seemed too inaccessible; I got the feeling that you're still carrying a large part of the experience of reading the novels with you inside your head. I simply don't have the same feelings you do when playing this, and my conclusion is that it's because I haven't read the books.

Therefore, I could see how the reviewer could refer to this as pretentious. You discuss how you feel all these things while playing it, but maybe it's because this experience has become a way to enhance the experience of reading the novels, instead of something that stands on its own?

On your blog you talk about doing nothing and letting your own internalization lead the experience. But I fear that the stimulation from reading the novels is a large part of that internalization, and those of us who haven't read the books simply don't have that experience to go to.
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ghostwheel

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« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 07:39:24 PM »

I don't hate all modern work. Some of it I find very appealing. It was also very important to the development of industrial design and decor. And despite my distaste for much of modernist architecture, there are a few gems. I just think it did more damage than good for fine art and architecture.
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Tyler Snell

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« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2012, 09:13:32 PM »


I don't think it's too difficult to comprehend how he approached this but then, I am American. I think it's a cultural thing. There is a strong streak of anti-intellectualism in the US. That and an association with Europe and sophistication.

This is the fault of modernist and post-modernist art. 20th century art has fucked us all.

Heh, I was just going to say both of these things (though I don't totally agree with the second).

To most Americans, sipping red wine and smoking cigarettes in a cafe on the beach is almost the epitome fancy, and rather exotic.
When I watched Amelie, I was pretty amazed at first about how they would go to cafes and drink wine and smoke cigarettes. In America, only bars and expensive restaurants serve alcohol, and smoking is forbidden pretty much everywhere public now. We're still very Puritan.

There's a silly perceived division between "fine arts", which is too-intellectual-for-you, and "normal art", i.e. craft. This, at least, was my experience going to art school. In general, the Fine Arts majors would make lazy ironic pieces with convoluted concepts hidden behind them (case in point--a gallery full of large framed QR codes that link to pornographic images), while everyone else focused on being craftsmen rather than artists, because they don't want to be like those pretentious fine artists. In my Game Art classes my peers and teachers would often talk about how much better we were than those elitist Fine Arts bastards. Roll Eyes
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 11:24:08 AM »

On your blog you talk about doing nothing and letting your own internalization lead the experience. But I fear that the stimulation from reading the novels is a large part of that internalization, and those of us who haven't read the books simply don't have that experience to go to.

I worry about that too. But I don't know how to surpass this. Other than ignore the books that I have read and the paintings that I have seen. They are all part of who I am. And "Bientôt l'été" is admittedly very extreme an attempt at getting things just right for me, which I equate with honesty. We are planning future projects that will be far more accessible. But this one had to be made first. I'm glad I did it. I'm very happy with the result. And delighted that some people enjoy it too. But it will be a while before I go back there. It's too deep inside myself, too intense.
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