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Author Topic: Kim Swift on "design compositions"  (Read 12108 times)
axcho

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« on: October 14, 2011, 10:45:38 AM »

Reading this Gamasutra interview with the designer of Portal reminded me of Michael comparing games to paintings:

Quote
Once we figure out what puzzle we're going to build, we want to then kind of whitebox it and make sure that it plays right. Then we rearrange the room compositionally so that way... I call it "design compositions."

Instead of it being like a painting where everything is still, you want to use things like motion, lighting cues -- not only lighting but the shadows too. As you can see [playing the demo] our window shadows are actually pointing, literally, at stuff. So figuring out a good lighting composition for the level, as well as detail.

So if you compose a scene where there's a bunch of detail in one area, players tend to just look at that. So just using a lot of psychological cues that you would use composing a painting, and doing a scene like that for a video game.

Quote
Can we go back to design composition a bit? I found that really interesting, as far as visual cues and making a player go where you want them to go.

KS: It's composing a scene like you would for a painting. So let's say I have a basic room [Swift sketches on paper] and I want the player to go here, right? So what I want to do as far as geometry is, let's say, let's have these walls curve in, because it's going to lead your eye along this line here. And you can see, we've done that quite a bit with our curves and angles.

It's not just because they're just quirky and fun, they actually help point and compose the scene where we want you to look. So in the case of, say, this image here, we wanted you to look at the image of Professor Quadwrangle. We wanted you to look at all the stuff over there in the corner, and we also wanted you to look at the ledge up there too.

So as you're coming in this room, I immediately want you to look at the right. Even though there's important stuff to the left, I want you to look at the right. So the way I lit this particular scene is because there's two windows up here on the side, I wanted you to look off to the right. So I made sure to use a light that cast at kind of an extreme angle, because that tends to look the best.

It's creating an effect where it's kind of leading you with the lights.

KS: Exactly. So not only are you lighting this space because you want to cast light in that area -- because lighter spaces, people are attracted to something that's light as opposed to dark. And then in addition to that, I'm using the negative space of the window itself to basically be an arrow that says, hey! Look over here!

I would have never noticed that.

KS: Mm-hmm. But it's those little subtle things that people don't really notice. But once you look at it from a compositional standpoint, that's what's going on.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 12:12:16 PM »

reminded me of Michael comparing games to paintings

Really? Please let me know what reminded you of it so I can erase it.

I would never degrade painting to some kind of functional graphics to persuade people to do what you want them to do.
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ghostwheel

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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 07:21:20 PM »

reminded me of Michael comparing games to paintings

Really? Please let me know what reminded you of it so I can erase it.

I would never degrade painting to some kind of functional graphics to persuade people to do what you want them to do.

Except that is exactly what a good composition does. It leads the eye to where the artist want the viewer to look.
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György Dudas

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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 11:35:15 PM »

I once compared making a videogame to painting. It is the same like painting, where you use a telephone to give instructions to a remote painter to execute the painting.
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troshinsky

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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 08:02:47 PM »

Yes, they are very good "painters" but this is exactly the thing I hate about Valve´s games. They are so meticulously designed to ensure that every player has the exact same experience that they kill any possiblily of freedom replacing it by a poor illusion. While reading this I can hear Chris Crawford saying "game designers just want to talk, talk, talk to the player, but they just won´t listen!"
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 09:52:34 AM »

Except that is exactly what a good composition does. It leads the eye to where the artist want the viewer to look.

Perhaps. But a good artist does this by listening to his heart, not by applying a formula from a rulebook.
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ghostwheel

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 01:50:09 PM »

Yes, they are very good "painters" but this is exactly the thing I hate about Valve´s games. They are so meticulously designed to ensure that every player has the exact same experience that they kill any possiblily of freedom replacing it by a poor illusion. While reading this I can hear Chris Crawford saying "game designers just want to talk, talk, talk to the player, but they just won´t listen!"

I must say, I completely disagree. I think they should be applauded. They know how to make obstacles not obstacles at all but part of the game experience and make them enjoyable. They think about these things in ways no other developer does. They know how a player thinks and work with the player. Most other devs fight with the player, and that is a stupid way to make games. You don't have to like their games but I feel their thoughtfulness and smart approach should be commended.

And any appearance of freedom in any game is illusion. If you want complete freedom, don't play games.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 01:52:14 PM by ghostwheel » Logged

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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 05:55:51 PM »

That's not true. There's plenty of freedom in many games, both for the player as for the characters. This doesn't always lead to smooth experiences, though. But maybe we should accept this.

Also, when game designers really want to completely manipulate you, then their purpose becomes very important. If their only goal is to entertain you, I would call that abuse.
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troshinsky

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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2011, 12:43:00 AM »

I honestly enjoy Valve´s games and I can see that they have mastered their design process. But to me Valve is not making games, they are making interactive movies: anyone who plays it, every single time, will have the exact same experience. We have movies for that, games allow us to create unique experiences, living worlds that change and evolve acording to how the player plays. I don´t ask for total freedom, I ask for something to meke me come back to the same game again and again and always be surprised.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 12:47:19 PM »

I agree with you on the potential of this medium for unique experiences.

But I've seen the insult "interactive movie" hurled at too many interesting projects (our own included) not to get on the defense. First of all, I don't think there's anything wrong with using the medium of video-games to make a movie. I don't think there's anything wrong with movies. But second, we really shouldn't underestimate the emotional impact of even the minimal amounts of agency that a player of Half Life 2 (or The Graveyard or Dinner Date for that matter) has. Playing Half Life 2 doesn't feel like watching a movie at all to me. It leaves memories of being somewhere and doing something and not just of seeing something.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 12:49:04 PM by Michaël Samyn » Logged
Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 12:55:28 PM »

I don´t ask for total freedom, I ask for something to meke me come back to the same game again and again and always be surprised.

I wish more games had such elements. I often wish to return to a certain place in a game but most of the time that place cannot be reached without going through the game first and/or when you get there, they force you to play their game again (i.e. monsters start attacking you). I don't even need new surprises every time. Just being able to soak up the atmosphere of a particular place in a game world would be very welcome.

Of course a living world would make such a "visit" much more engaging. If the world responds to your presence, surprises happen automatically and you'll be able to be amused for a longer amount of time.
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