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Author Topic: Being some-body  (Read 21340 times)
Michaël Samyn

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« on: April 05, 2011, 09:35:17 AM »

I've made a (un)remarkable discovery. Namely that we were right all along. Smiley
But I guess we had to explore the alternative to be sure.
And now it's much more clear.

We're in the final stage of a prototyping experiment that has ended in failure. Obviously, when prototyping, one knows that failure is a possible outcome. In this case too, the reason for prototyping first, instead of immediately going into production, was uncertainty and a need to explore our ideas. But it still hurts to realize that one is not able to create one's vision.

What we are drawn to do with Tale of Tales is the creation of worlds that players can be in. This is what we enjoy in video games, more than anything else. And this is what we want to work with, as artists. I think we have successfully done this (within the limits of our skill, talent and resources) with The Endless Forest, The Graveyard and The Path. But less so with Fatale, Vanitas and now the failed Cncntrc prototype.

Cncntrc is a rather abstract game in which we tried to evoke emotions and sensations directly. There is no story and there are no characters. But the shapes you encounter are sensual and respond to your touch. You "touch" these shapes by means of other abstract shapes that serve as a sort of avatar/3D cursor (similar to a ship in an arcade shooter game).

We have now realized that this exploration leads us to a dead end.
(And possibly only us, by the way. Other developers may be more successful.)

For one because the direct expressing of sensations got us dangerously close to games. It was hard to resist using game logic to guide the experience. And we wanted to resist this because we wanted to stay away from emotions like challenge and victory and we didn't want the game to be difficult or have extrinsic rewards. It was very important for us that the player remained immersed.

The main problem however (and our Great Realization) was that immersion does not work without a sense of identity. In the world of Cncntrc, you don't know who you are as a player. You are yourself, in a way. But the world you move around in is abstract, not yours. You are body-less. And that's a mistake. A mistake we also made, to some extent, in Fatale, where the fact that you play the ghost of John the Baptist is not expressed very cleared (plus you literally don't have a body because you play a ghost).

Now we know that if we want the player to feel immersed in a virtual world, they have to know who they are in this world. This applies to both first person and third person designs. Without a clear idea of whose shoes (and indeed, whose body) you are filling, immersion will not be complete. It's not about the player actually thinking that they are in another world. This is impossible. Instead, it's about transporting the player's imagination to another place. To be able to believe in the reality of interacting with a virtual world, the player needs to know who they are in this world, how exactly they are interacting with it. To be able to touch this world, they need to have a body!

So, for us, our old concept of the primacy of putting "a certain character in a certain environment" is confirmed. That's what we want to work with. All we really want a video game to be, is a simulation. And then within that simulation, we can play with ideas and present narrative elements. And for a simulation to work, the player needs to have a place in it, play a role in it.
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Thomas

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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 10:05:55 AM »

We actually came to this realization during the design process (prototyping has not started yet), where we began with the player being a not so human character, but eventually changed that so the player is much more human. The reason for the switch was basically that when thinking about situations and interaction possibilities, it but up  a lot of obstacles and seemed to pull away from immersion. We could simply not assume that the player would figure out their role in the world in the same way the can if they are in humanoid body. It was also brought about because of themes that we wanted to explore and felt that we needed to get more human-centered for it to have impact.

Remember we did not do any prototyping here so I cannot be sure how correct I am, but I think that the more human the avatar, the more likely the player is to accept the rest of the world. I think that our games Penumbra and Amnesia have pointed in this direction a bit, where we have had reactions from players saying that "they reacted just like they normally would have". Now a lot of people have not been in underground research facilities or haunted gothic castles, but what they mean is that they acted how they thought they would given the fantastic setting. In other videogames you play as this character that have no connection to the real you, and thus the virtual world is rejected. Thinking about it, I felt this myself in Bioshock, where the first 30 minutes (which I loved) put my in a very familiar place (in terms of avatar), while the rest of the game put me in some kind killing machine, and thus the world become much less "real" and meaningful to me.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 10:07:28 AM by Thomas » Logged
Jeroen D. Stout

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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 10:32:58 PM »

It is an interesting observation - the first thought I had reading this was about music and haiku's, which evoke a sense of world without giving you a body (or showing you one). I am listening to Brubeck writing this, and it evokes in me some happy sensation without being language or even construct. Of course, the music (or haiku's) do not require me to become involved with what goes on so I am free to purely accept is subconsciously. But people have let me listen to music which left me completely cold because there was no 'hook' for me. It is hard to say not having played Cncntrc, but it may always be possible that what the shapes evoke did not contain the right 'key' - which is where 'gamifying' the experience comes in, perhaps, as that would be the quickest route to a simple 'key'.

I actually find the matter a little difficult to think about in some way because it made me realize that I have no ideas for a game in which you do not see things through an actual human's eyes and experience the world through his body. That is not to say that I believe the body 'ought' to be human - but some personified entity (a pathetic fallacy, perchance) I imagine to be essential.

Reflecting on it from a quite personal angle, it reminds me of something I occasionally would say I suffer from; derealization. That is to say, I loose the sensation that what I experience is 'actually real'. In a sense the real world fails to convince me for some time period that it is real. I distinctly remember having it when I was visiting the Google party during the GDC - I was in a detail-less room with unpleasant music, had to shout to get uninspired conversations and somehow I got the singular sensation that nothing here means anything. I think it mostly comes from not having the prospect of pleasant things occurring combined with the suspicion that I also have no agency to make anything happen; so in a sense what you describe with Cncntrc, a lack of identity. I contrast this with situations in which almost everything I do will evoke something meaningful, in which I get what you may call hyperrealization, a sensation that I know what I am, what I do and have the agency to choose meaningful things; with my mind working incredibly fast.

So reflecting on it from this angle; perhaps the experience that you have no agency and are trapped in a scene which evokes in you little meaningful effect that causes you to withdraw from the game all-together. The meaningful effect could be caused by sympathy or aesthetics - which is why becoming a fighting machine in Bioshock ruined a lot of immersion for me as well; or specifically, the lack of any form of social engagement what-so-ever. My feeling on the game very much became 'if there is nobody here who matters it hardly is worth saving the city'.

I do not think you need to be human or corporal; hard sci-fi would pride itself making logical characters out of aliens and such. But definitively a sense of identity. And I do stay on the side (mostly re: Thomas) that a 'normal' person is more required when you leave more to the player to decide on actions. I do think that if you get an AI to do part of the avatar's actions you can shift agency in such a way that what the player does is meaningful in a way that it could not be without the AI; because you are wearing an emotional suit, so to speak.

So what are your plans for increasing identity for the player, based on this?
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Marco Turetta

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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 01:23:54 AM »

A non human character I completely felt drawn into was the Alien of the original "Alien vs Predator" by Sega.
Few design decisions like a wide angle view, great speed of movement, the ability to climb on everything and a small infrared halo when seeing humans were very effective.

The identification with this creature "unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality" was so strong that for a while I found myself spontaneously spotting the dark corners and the paths to reach them in every room I entered in the real life.

And again the goals I was asked to achieve brought the story forward, but broke the magic, remembering me that I was in a video game and not just "there".
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ghostwheel

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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 01:57:30 AM »

I'm not sure I'm convinced of your conclusions. I don't have a problem with being myself in a game. I actually have a problem with you-are-this-person sort of thing in games, like RPGS and such. I don't like a game telling me what my identity is. But maybe that's just me.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 09:10:59 AM »

I have no ideas for a game in which you do not see things through an actual human's eyes and experience the world through his body.

Good! Stick to that idea! Smiley
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 09:22:32 AM »

So what are your plans for increasing identity for the player, based on this?

We have none at all. My conclusions are for future projects. Cncntrc is what it is. Multiple variations are still possible, though. We might end up releasing one after all.

Because in the mean time, while I think it's not a path I want to continue with Tale of Tales, I have been charmed by the Cncntrc prototype as its final pieces are falling into place. It can actually be quite a thrilling experience at times. But I do aim to work with simpler concepts in the future: a person in a situation, no story, no clever interaction. Just building an atmosphere an a simple given.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 09:26:54 AM »

I'm not sure I'm convinced of your conclusions. I don't have a problem with being myself in a game. I actually have a problem with you-are-this-person sort of thing in games, like RPGS and such. I don't like a game telling me what my identity is. But maybe that's just me.

Maybe it is indeed personal. But for me it's not so much about telling the player who it is that they are playing (I don't care about stories), as giving them a sort of clear connection to the virtual world. It's about feeling you have control over a body that has a place in the world. It's more about a physical sensation than a narrative hook.
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ghostwheel

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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 11:23:40 AM »

Quote
It's more about a physical sensation than a narrative hook.

I'm still not sure about this but I get what you're saying. That makes sense. You're saying when the experience is too disconnected and abstract, immersion falls apart. Maybe. But I often find visualizations and screensavers immersive. I don't know. Your experience is yours and of course valid. Perhaps it's simply a matter of what you are trying to achieve only works a certain way.
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Booger

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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 12:54:22 PM »

Well we'll only know the answer once we've gotten an angel or a spirit to be the game designer.

Maybe first we should have games where we play the roles of non-human but familiar creatures ... like a pet or an insect.

Then like mentioned, play the role of an alien... with tentacles

Most games we already play as God, though... being totally omnipotent and omniscient (as far as quick access to all the statistics a particular world offers).
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Thomas

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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 07:07:35 AM »

I think it depends a bit on what you want to do. I think the human part is essential when you want to relate things that have with the normal experience to do. For example, I have be lost inside a Mandelbrot generator for hours and that is very for from anything human related. But when you want to touch upon human themes, I think it is essential to have that human connection. For example, I could not get much out of Rod Humble's "The Marriage" or to Braid in terms of anything I could relate too. I thought Braid was a very pleasant experience, but much more of the "explore the Mandebrot set"-kind. I do not look down up these kind of experience, but I think it is important to note that you cannot approach certain themes in a very abstract / alien fashion.

Quote
But for me it's not so much about telling the player who it is that they are playing (I don't care about stories), as giving them a sort of clear connection to the virtual world. It's about feeling you have control over a body that has a place in the world. It's more about a physical sensation than a narrative hook.
This also sums my views up regarding interaction and human agency.
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Malcolm

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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 05:31:02 AM »

I had a very similar experience recently in designing a game for an undergraduate research project.  I wanted to inspire a specific emotion in the player, but I didn't want the message to be too blunt or obvious and I didn't want a lot of excess "clutter" getting in the way, so I focused on making it as abstract as possible and tried to do away with all "gamey" elements such as rules and goals.  Unfortunately, without an objective, my test players were unable to relate to their avatar and the message got lost.  The problem wasn't that players weren't able to identify with their avatar, the problem was that they had no *reason* for doing so.  I think this is a property of all media, not just games: the more abstract the work is, the more open it is to interpretation, and if the "intended" reading is too specific then too many players will fall outside of the intended reaction.
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dkanaga

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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 01:25:26 AM »

Still, we all respond to things differently....

I often find myself most moved by abstract forms. Thomas, the Mandelbrot example was a good one, as an example of something abstract and very powerful... I'd consider mandelbrot zooms/explorations to be a very human thing, though. They create meanings in the same way that music does- the relationships of parts to each other and to the whole. And is music human? tone relationships are cosmic (physical/mathematical), like the mandelbrot set itself. Composition, on the other hand, is a series of decisions, much like the zoom/exploration of the fractal, and can be related to our lived experience of being in time as well as anything, in my opinion. These meanings, these abstract explorations of the human will, tend to give me the most sublime experiences (music, mostly- but also moments of abstraction in other forms... musical play).

Anyway, in short, I like the sound of your failed project, Michaël, and might enjoy playing it quite a lot more than you, even Smiley Have you considered putting the prototype online?
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Chris W

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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 09:46:31 PM »

All art is, at root, about what it's like to be a human being.  Otherwise, it wouldn't touch us the way it does.  That being said, there are plenty of ways to give a viewer/user a vehicle with which to project human-ness on non-human characters, or even objects.  In fact, people will do this naturally on their own.  Why else would a child play with a stuffed animal?

The question brought up by the game originally described is an interesting one.  It sounds like you were a step away from asking the player to play as the environment, but just not taking the final leap in that direction.  It makes me wonder how God would feel if he were to cause a flower to open (example not meant to be taken in a religious sense, just take the analogy for what it is).  Would he walk/float/appear in front of it and reach out and touch it?  Or would he go into the flower, become it, and imbue it with his form?  Has anyone made a game where you are asked to be the environment, and to identify your self as it, either as a whole, or as a series of habitations of objects?

I guess, speaking of flowers, Flower is a good example of a game that touches on these questions.
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Michaël Samyn

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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2011, 02:54:14 PM »

Why else would a child play with a stuffed animal?

Because it's a child?
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